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| | | Forum Member
 
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Last Login: 10/31/2008 10:58:50 AM
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| I am looking to upgrade from my 1991 525i within the next few months. I have narrowed down my options to either an E34 M4 or an E39 M5. I will be daily driving the car, and using it in track events / autocross.
I love my current E34, especially the interior. The idea of it having 150 more horsepower is very appealing to me. I also really like the styling.
The E39 has also been appealing to me for a long time. The extra power and luxury is enticing, although the interior and exterior styling is holding me back - as is the price of maintenance. I currently maintain my own car, but I fear I would lose that ability with the E39.
The other issue: I have never ridden in / driven either car. It might not be too hard to rustle up a test drive of a local E39 M5 at a dealership, but E34's are as rare as hen's teeth. Are there any members who own either of these cars who wouldn't mind giving me a demonstration of their capabilities?
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| | | Supreme Being
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| repenttokyo (8/28/2008)
...I currently maintain my own car, but I fear I would lose that ability with the E39....I believe the latest Roundel has a Tech letter response about the high cost of maintenance on E39 M5's. As long as you are prepared for that, it's a great car. My brother had one, and I drove it a bit. I also drove it at the BMW Performance School in Spartensburg. Be sure you have the clutch all the way engaged before squeezing on the power. I recall they said they replaced the clutch every 2000 miles at the driving school.  The E39 M5 feels like a powerful sedan -- like a great GT cruiser with a comfortable back seat and a big trunk. |
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| DanChadwick (8/29/2008)
repenttokyo (8/28/2008)
...I currently maintain my own car, but I fear I would lose that ability with the E39....
The E39 M5 feels like a powerful sedan -- like a great GT cruiser with a comfortable back seat and a big trunk.
I have read that the E34 feels like much more of a driver's car - that is kind of what I am going for. I am all for power, but not at the expense of road connection, if you know what I mean?
My back seat sees very little use. |
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| I've owned an E34 M5 for a few years (most of that time spent with a highly modified engine, fully rebuilt and bored out with huge custom pistons), had it on MoSport for 2 days and a few autocrosses. I've also had the opportunity to thrash a friend's E39 M5 a bit.
As a luxury car, I'd take the E39. I hope this one doesn't need explaining, it's in a different league in every aspect of luxury and comfort.
As a performance car, I'd still take the E39. I don't like the E39's in general, they are about as nimble as an aircraft carrier but the M5 is something very special. It feels very tight and precise - the grip, power and brakes are all face-altering. It may not feel as connected to the road as my E30 with a 95 M3 steering rack and all urethane bushings, but then the E34 is even further away. The E34 M5 got a faster steering box than the 535 but it's still an old recirculating ball box and saying that it's better is like saying rubber is a harder material than jello - while true, it doesn't say much in absolute terms. The E39 M5 is also properly quick. It's not blindingly fast anymore by today's standards but it's still in the fast car category. While a normal 3.6 E34 M5 is less than a half second quicker to 60 than my 4Runner...
If you've got the extra $ to burn, get the E39 M5. |
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| dvoronov (8/30/2008)
I've owned an E34 M5 for a few years (most of that time spent with a highly modified engine, fully rebuilt and bored out with huge custom pistons), had it on MoSport for 2 days and a few autocrosses. I've also had the opportunity to thrash a friend's E39 M5 a bit.
As a luxury car, I'd take the E39. I hope this one doesn't need explaining, it's in a different league in every aspect of luxury and comfort.
As a performance car, I'd still take the E39. I don't like the E39's in general, they are about as nimble as an aircraft carrier but the M5 is something very special. It feels very tight and precise - the grip, power and brakes are all face-altering. It may not feel as connected to the road as my E30 with a 95 M3 steering rack and all urethane bushings, but then the E34 is even further away. The E34 M5 got a faster steering box than the 535 but it's still an old recirculating ball box and saying that it's better is like saying rubber is a harder material than jello - while true, it doesn't say much in absolute terms. The E39 M5 is also properly quick. It's not blindingly fast anymore by today's standards but it's still in the fast car category. While a normal 3.6 E34 M5 is less than a half second quicker to 60 than my 4Runner...
If you've got the extra $ to burn, get the E39 M5.
thank-you very much for your reply, this is the kind of thing I was looking for. Now, would you take a stock e39 over your modded e34?
I very much enjoy driving my 525 e34, although it is extremely slow. does the e39 M5 take away some of the aircraft carrier handling of the standard cars?
the 3.6 may not be about straightline speed, but the powerband and responsiveness would make it much different than an SUV or truck. I mean, there are 400 hp trucks out there, but I wouldn't call them performance oriented. I guess what I am saying is that luxury doesn't mean nearly as much to me as drivability and a fun driving experience. I don;t have money to burn, really - I am prepared for high maintenance costs, but I don;t want to be spending huge amounts paying dealer techs when I could be doing many repairs myself on the e34. If the difference is a chasm, then that could be a deal breaker for me.
I don't suppose you'd be willing to give me a ride in your M? If I asked nicely, and perhaps threw in a 6-pack or bottle of wine? |
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| thank-you very much for your reply, this is the kind of thing I was looking for. Now, would you take a stock e39 over your modded e34?
You're very welcome. For a daily driver/cruiser, absolutely. Otherwise, definitely not. I've had my M5 over 280kph indicated twice. 600 supersport bikes couldn't keep up with me at those speeds (at the rate I was pulling away I suspect they can't physically go that fast  ).
I very much enjoy driving my 525 e34, although it is extremely slow. does the e39 M5 take away some of the aircraft carrier handling of the standard cars?
The E39 M5 is a completely different machine from any other E39, moreso than with the E34. I had a 535i before the M5 and with the M5 stock, other than the power, the 535 could handle circles around it - but of course that was changed within a weekend. I honestly have to say that if you have any reservations about being able to afford the E39 M5, don't test drive it - you won't be able to resist.
the 3.6 may not be about straightline speed, but the powerband and responsiveness would make it much different than an SUV or truck. I mean, there are 400 hp trucks out there, but I wouldn't call them performance oriented. I guess what I am saying is that luxury doesn't mean nearly as much to me as drivability and a fun driving experience. I don;t have money to burn, really - I am prepared for high maintenance costs, but I don;t want to be spending huge amounts paying dealer techs when I could be doing many repairs myself on the e34. If the difference is a chasm, then that could be a deal breaker for me.
Powerband flexibility and responsiveness are great things but only when they come along with their friend torque. The S14 in the M3 is a great engine but being passed on the track by modern family sedans will get old. By the way with regards to responsiveness, I personally think it's overrated. If your engine bogs or otherwise responds adversely to throttle input then it's out of tune. Any modern FI engine with good management should have right-now throttle response. The S series of motors have huge flywheels and various accessories running off of them. If you're expecting racecar or motorcycle-like wind-up, you'll be disappointed. But realistically, except for first gear with a short rear end, this will never affect reality.
With regards to working on the car... there is nothing you would pay a BMW tech to do on these cars, either E39 or E34, that you couldn't do yourself. The question is how much time you have because it may take you much longer to do something (some people take a day to change the oil, others rebuild engines in a weekend...). Now, that being said, it's a V8 inside a medium sized sedan. I've done everything on my E34s and now the E30 (including a full 98 M3 driveline transplant) and I wouldn't want to have to wrench in the engine compartment of the V8 5s (e34 or e39). This goes especially for the M5 since it has way more stuff in there. But it can still be done on your own... It's still better than an Audi. Did you know that on a 2.8 A4, you have to remove the engine to change the timing belt? But anyway, point is that at the end of the day, there's nothing revolutionary about it. The suspension is just a bunch of levers with bushings, dampeners and springs. The engine is internal combustion DOHC. It's just going to be a bigger pain in the *** than your E34 since everything is more advanced - which you'll appreciate ...when you're not fixing it.
I don't suppose you'd be willing to give me a ride in your M? If I asked nicely, and perhaps threw in a 6-pack or bottle of wine?
I would if I still had it. I realized that no car will ever be a great luxury car and be a great track rat at the same time - it's going to be really good at one and terrible at the other - or just ok at both. I decided to get an SUV for one purpose and an E30 for the other - I have to say it's the best of both worlds.
BUT, if I had to still pick ONE car to have, I'd take the E39 M5 (even over the new one, which I've also experienced and I really really don't like it - well it was an M6 but same deal). Actually if you don't NEED the rear 2 doors, consider an M3. Recall that back in its day the E36 M3 was picked over the likes of the NSX and F355 as the best handling car at the time. Or if you can swing it, a post-recall E46 M3. |
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| | I really appreciate such an in-depth reply. It's tough to get this kind of information when researching cars of this nature - I really appreciate it. |
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